Vanity: Fair?
When companies take an outfit that would "typically" be a size 10 and call it an 8, that's called "vanity sizing." The Daily News talks about how your size can fluctuate wildly depending on where you shop. Man, that's frustrating. But also I get a little thrill from fitting in a L, say, as opposed to an XL, because it makes me feel like I am one step closer to "normal" now! Yes, I realize that's effed up, please don't yell at me.
"Despite the inconvenience, O'Brien said she prefers the arbitrary system to being measured in exact inches. 'Otherwise it's just too brutal.'"
Man, really? I think the current system is pretty brutal. Give me inches any day. My bra size has never made me feel bad about myself the way those ultra-small Old Navy jeans can. I hate getting "my" size off the rack and then discovering that I need a bigger one. Stop the mind games, clothing industry! I can't stop playing them!
"Despite the inconvenience, O'Brien said she prefers the arbitrary system to being measured in exact inches. 'Otherwise it's just too brutal.'"
Man, really? I think the current system is pretty brutal. Give me inches any day. My bra size has never made me feel bad about myself the way those ultra-small Old Navy jeans can. I hate getting "my" size off the rack and then discovering that I need a bigger one. Stop the mind games, clothing industry! I can't stop playing them!
posted by mo pie at 10:29 AM
28 Comments:
I agree that the current system sort of stinks...especially when you think you are size 20 because that is the size you wear at, say, Target and then you go try on that size somewhere else and it doesn't fit and you start thinking "ohmygod, maybe I have just been in DENIAL about my size, maybe I have lost all this weight and I'm still not any smaller!"
But I also think going to just inches would stink too, because I am a very apple shaped person, so even if I had a waist size on a pair of pants, it still wouldn't help me to judge if that pair of pants will fit my hips and legs which are smaller in proportion to my waist simply because that is how I am shaped, I would still have to try them on and see.....
Using inches (or even centimeters) would make sense and keep me from imagining that anyone who's a "size zero" is therefore INVISIBLE.
Men's clothing sizes are effed up too: when buying a suit, someone at Macy's told me that the labeled chest size is usually higher than actual so that vain men can imagine their chests are larger.
My grandmother is a prime example of this...she says "I've always been a 16!" So she buys a 16, regardless of how it fits. She's 5'3 and 142 pounds soaking wet and was 117 when she and my grandfather got married- she was a 10 in her wedding dress.
Obviously she's closer to a 12 in today's sizes, but she is a 16, dammit. And her clothes fall off of her.
Men's sizing is more logical, but it still varies somewhat, I know two guys who wear a 34" waist in Dockers, Lee, Levis, basically everything. Everything BUT The Gap that is...there it's a 36" for them.
I think sizing in inches/cm would be somewhat better, it would still differ somewhat, and still depend a lot on the cut of the garment, but you'd be a lot less likely to vary by 3 sizes from store to store.
What IS the deal with Old Navy sizing, anyway? When I'm not pregnant, I wear a 6 or 8 in just about every other clothing line on the planet. When I go to Old Navy or Target, I'm suddenly a 12 or a 14. Nice for the pocketbook, not so nice for the ego!
I think the vanity sizing is ridiculous. The clothing industry folks must think we are all stupid, or want to deceive ourselves about our weight. I know I'm a size 10 "really," even though I have some size 4 pants from The Gap. Those pants don't make me any smaller, thinner, or feel any more special. The vanity sizing thing just makes it harder to buy clothes when you have to take 3 different sizes into the dressing room. Christina
Hi, there. It's me, the 47yearold again. And, yeah, I remember when a size 14 in the U.S. was supposed to fit women with the measurements of what is now a size 12 or 10. It wasn't that long ago, honest. Well, okay, about twenty years ago. (rolls eyes) I still have some of the clothes. (Why? she asks herself? don't you need the closet room?)
Do you have any idea how disorienting it is to finally lose enough weight to justify clothes shopping and then find out the sizes have all changed? Not to mention disappointing to realize that I could've been wearing some of the stuff much sooner if I'd known? The measurements I am aiming for are now a size 10. The last time I wore a piece of clothing labeled "size 10" was in the seventh grade. Yup, junior high. (Junior high. oooooooo, scary.) And, no, NOT ONE of my little classmates wore a size 10 anything, not then.
Dress sizes have radically altered over the last sixty years or so. Just go do a search on Ebay, looking for dress patterns from the 1930's, the ones that have been sitting in someone's attic for eighty years. The measurements for a size 14 are tiny from our perspective.
Clothing sizes don't mean anything. They never have.
I've learned to always try things on at Ann Taylors, because it seems they can't keep their sizes straight even in their own clothing. I have skirts that are basically the same cut and and material (one may have a different scalloped bottom or extra flounce or something) and yet one's a 2, one's a 4, one's a 6 and one's an 8. I have three dresses that are also bascially of a similar cut and material, and two are 4s and one is a 6. I have a pair of cropped corduroy pants, too, and it's a size 10. It's the most confusing shop where size is concerned, and I don't know why they can't just stick to one 'template
size and be done with it.
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Depending on the store and the garment, I range from a zero to an eight. According to older patterns, I am a size ten or twelve. Based on this, I think industy wide standardization is an impossible dream.
It would be nice if you could just tell the salesperson your measurements and they could consult a chart and say "here, today, you are a size ____." or if they would post them in the dressing rooms or something.
Of course, that would require the store to have some standard of sizing, which the size 0,2,4 and 6 Banana Republic skirts in my closet tell me is only a slightly less impossible dream.
Blogging intimidates me. But I post on BFB as Dolley.
I walked out of April Cornell after a shopping trip with dresses that were: X-Small; Small; Medium; and Large. They were all the same basic fitted shape, but those were the sizes I needed to have those dresses fit.
I have jackets on my rack that are sized 4 through 14, and I can wear them all. In the bags under my desk are an Ann Taylor 16, a Tahari size 8 (which fits like paint), and Hagger jacket, size 6. The shorter and more fitted the cut, the more likely it is to fit. My philosophy is now based on my thrift and consignment experience, which is "if I like it, I'll try it on" because "you never know!" And I don't.
Manufacturers have their reasons whereof reason knows nothing.
I had a friend who worked for Gap, Inc. for a while. The fit models for Old Navy, Gap, and Banana Republic (and other stores, I assume) vary based at least partially on the target demographic of the store. Banana Republic is the largest fit model, then Gap, then Old Navy. I have found Ann Taylor and J. Crew to be generously sized in the same way Banana is.
I've always wished for standardized inch or cm sizing. I think it would have set me on the path to weight loss a little sooner if I had come face to face with the actual circumference of my waist. As it is, I keep a suit from sophomore year of college as a personal size check. I know if I can fit easily into it, I am at a good weight for my adult body, no matter how out of control the vanity sizing gets.
One other thought on all the vanity sizing: Smaller people are being sized out of some stores. This is certainly not a problem for me, but I have some very thin friends that are too small to fit into even a size 0 at some stores because the clothes have gotten larger over time.
Anonymous quote:
"One other thought on all the vanity sizing: Smaller people are being sized out of some stores. This is certainly not a problem for me, but I have some very thin friends that are too small to fit into even a size 0 at some stores because the clothes have gotten larger over time."
Yes, I am one of those people. I'm not terribly thin and tiny either..I am 5'6" and weigh 117 pounds. Yet most of my pants are too big. I think I live in a geographical area where there are a lot of overweight people...it's hard to find a size 0 in any of the stores where I shop.
What's bad is whenever I complain I can't find clothes small enough, I get eyerolls, sighs and smarmy comments.
I have read about BS-EN 13402-1, which is hoped to do away with vanity sizing. This standard calls for an outline of a human figure with measurements in centimeters. This is expected to be used in the UK mid-2004, and the rest of Europe at about the same time.
There is no sign of its use in the USA. I have beem ready for this since 1975, when I heard the at the USA will be switching to metric. Check out my growth chart at BayAreaBiker1.blogspot.com. All my measurements are in centimeters! I think it is high time, especially with a high import rate, that we have a consistant way of labelling clothing sizes, and BS-EN 13402 is it.
I'm glad someone finally mentioned what it is like if you are on the small end of the sizing scale. Years ago, I was a 2 at Banana Republic - now even the 0 petite falls off of me. It seems even designer clothes are following suit. I used to wear a S in Juicy track pants - now a P is generous. In jeans, I went from a 27 to a 24/25. And I have not lost weight! :-) I also hate when you get the eye roll or negative comments from other shoppers or sales people. A rude shopper recently told my mother that maybe I'd have an easier time if I was fed properly! Anyone have any suggestions for smaller cut stores/brands? Thanks!
Yes I am a big woman. And I have found that most manufacturers are making there clothes "smaller" my daughter who is 5'6" and 150 pds has to buy a 3x in most tops. All the tops are cut really small and tight and the pants seem to be following that trend. I am 5'4" and 200 pounds and can't find anything to fit. I think clothing manufacturers need to wise up and size clothes to fit all people not just one section of society.
Yes I am a big woman. And I have found that most manufacturers are making there clothes "smaller" my daughter who is 5'6" and 150 pds has to buy a 3x in most tops. All the tops are cut really small and tight and the pants seem to be following that trend. I am 5'4" and 200 pounds and can't find anything to fit. I think clothing manufacturers need to wise up and size clothes to fit all people not just one section of society.
The clothing patterns used were established from a survey in the 1950's with a fairly small sample. The remaining sizes were simply extrapolated, with mixed results. The manufacturers have not really updated their sizing scale. With body scanners now available, in now limited numbers, it should soon be possible to update the measurement survey.
i dont know why everyone is saying old navy or target is much larger than gap. i go to fitme.com and put in all my measurements and it gives me a list of brands that i would fit into with corresponding size. in all 3 stores i wear a size 4. the only stores that are different is abercrombie where i wear a size 2. and i am currently 5'5" and 113 pounds. but i do see where the vanity sizing comes in - i have a pair of jeans i just pulled out of the attic from the early 90's. they are a size 7/8 and they fit me just fine! but if i were to pull a pair of 7/8's off a store shelf today, they would be falling off of me!
Well, for those of us that actually EXERCISE, and spend money to stay in shape, and who are TRULY a size ZERO, I think it sucks. Zeros are not zeros anymore. And, the sad part for retailers is, I actully have money to spend in their stores, but can't buy clothes because they are too busy helping to "feed" America, and its growing waistlines. So much for taking care of myself! Goes to show, if you're overweight, you once again get catered to in this society...Here's a thought...get the damn cheeseburger out of your hands, eat healthy, hit the gym, and maybe there won't be a need for 4, or 5 different sizes to take into the dressing room! You know EXACTLY what size you are! No amount of "vanity sizing" is going to make your big butt any smaller!
Sign me, "Someone Fed Up With This Fat Society"
B**ch did NOT just go there with that "cheeseburger" comment, did she?
Lucky she said "anonymous". I know a lot of people who would try to mess her up. Or maybe anonymous is just another troll. Ignorant idiot, rather.
Yeah, boo hoo. You can't find zero clothes? Right. There are 97 billion stores at the mall where you can look to find your size. There are exactly 3 clothing stores at the mall that are dedicated to my size...Lane Bryant, Avenue, and Torrid.
And don't you dare go making assumptions about what I eat or whether I exercise or not, because you might be VERY surprised at the reality. I probably work out more than you do, honey.
Seriously! How would you feel if I told you to take your anorexic self elsewhere? Or how about if I assumed you were in the bathroom vomiting the cup of rice and two crackers you've eaten today and wouldn't even see this?
Right. You'd be pissed at someone for making comments that don't (necessarily) apply to you. So get the finger out of your throat and grow some tact before you post!
The British Standards Institute is addressing one of the problems with BodyDim labels, under BS-EN 13402. This calls for a pictogram with actual measurements in centimeters. This standard is divided into 4 parts. Part 1 identifies body parts to be measured. Part 2 identifies which measurements are to be used for the item. Part 3 sets the sizing intervals, and part 4 is used when ordering. Parts 1 and 2 have been established from the beginning. Part 3 is fairly well-established. Part 4 is being worked on.
stop your bitching and lose weight.
stop your bitching and lose weight.
I can completely relate to the comment signed "Someone Fed Up With This Fat Society" I have given up on buying clothes in the United States. I am a WHITE female and i wait until i go to ASIA to buy clothes! A size 0 is too big for me. Some 00 are even too big.... I was recently able to buy a 00 petite suit at Ann taylor with only minor alterations! That is absurd. I am not THAT skinny. In fact, in Asian sizes (china/taiwan), I tend to be a medium usually!!!
Great article! Thanks.
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