Deep Thoughts
Do you feel like doing some deep thinking today? this post by Savy of Shaping My Way asks if the world, in catering to the overweight, is actually, subtly making people overweight.
"So, how do we save ourselves? Where is the line between a reasonable accommodation for every person (because people deserve to be able to participate in the world, regardless of size - I fully believe that, so please don't misunderstand) and a disservice to our society as a whole? Is it fair to make this a world that accommodates overweight/obese people before normal weight people?"
I don't think this post is in any way a knee-jerk antifat reaction, although I do detect a hint of the whole smug-ex-smoker in her attitude. I find the idea that our world is going to cater to fat people--much less pressure people to be overweight--somewhat laughable. But it's still worth thinking about. Is society an enabler? Is it important for us to suffer and to be uncomfortable, on top of all the ridicule, in order to motivate us to lose weight and be healthy? Are longer seatbelts and wider airplane seats a bad idea?
In my opinion, the thin person would never even think about accomodations like that. When I lost weight, I simply stopped worrying if the seat belt would fit around me, because I knew it always would. On the other hand, I am a firm believer in throwing away your fat pants, because hanging onto them means you're giving yourself implicit permission to get fat all over again. So suddenly I don't know what I think. What do you think?
"So, how do we save ourselves? Where is the line between a reasonable accommodation for every person (because people deserve to be able to participate in the world, regardless of size - I fully believe that, so please don't misunderstand) and a disservice to our society as a whole? Is it fair to make this a world that accommodates overweight/obese people before normal weight people?"
I don't think this post is in any way a knee-jerk antifat reaction, although I do detect a hint of the whole smug-ex-smoker in her attitude. I find the idea that our world is going to cater to fat people--much less pressure people to be overweight--somewhat laughable. But it's still worth thinking about. Is society an enabler? Is it important for us to suffer and to be uncomfortable, on top of all the ridicule, in order to motivate us to lose weight and be healthy? Are longer seatbelts and wider airplane seats a bad idea?
In my opinion, the thin person would never even think about accomodations like that. When I lost weight, I simply stopped worrying if the seat belt would fit around me, because I knew it always would. On the other hand, I am a firm believer in throwing away your fat pants, because hanging onto them means you're giving yourself implicit permission to get fat all over again. So suddenly I don't know what I think. What do you think?
posted by mo pie at 11:54 AM
22 Comments:
As an ex-obese person.... I think society DOES enable us to become obese.. I wish there were no BIG GIRL clothes shops, larger or extended seat belts, larger chairs etc... because they just allowed me to keep growing! One of my final straws, that made me start to lose weight, was when my butt simply would not fit into the chairs at our local eatery! I am so thankful they did NOT have BIG CHAIRS for us big people! Yes, in my OPINION, society is ENABLING but not ENCOURAGING people to remain obese.
But you have to think about the fat people who DON'T want to lose weight or at least are happy with their current size. Not making things big enough for overweight people means that society is making a choice for them by saying "it's not ok you are a fatty, please lose weight thanks" and IMO that would be most unfair. People need to make choices about their body on their own and not have to base them on whether or not they can fit in a seat somewhere public. I just don't think it's society's responsibility to make personal choices for people.
I think because there are all heights all sizes etc.. the world should accomadate people.. it is not about allowing fat folks to be fat.. It is just acknowledging that not all people are the same size.. Nothing permits us, allows us, says, be obese.. we are simply obese because we over eat, or binge or whatever you call it.. Our weight is our individual choice.. what you put in your mouth is up to you.. nothing in the outside world permits is.. says hey its okay to fat. I do not see an enabling world.. I think see people that want to have someone to blame for their obesity in this world. The first step to change is saying , my size was created by me.. I ate whatever to get this size.. thats the bottom line.. Responsibility for self.. We are damn lucky that they do have large size shops so there are decent clothes out there for larger people.. and it is nice that there are accomadations in some situations.... I think the world is far more concerned with being healthy than giving fat folks a right to be fat. hope that makes sense..
This is exactly knee-jerk anti-fat crap--albeit disguised by a slimy combination of pseudo-intellectualism and that fake concern exhibited by televangelists.
Ugh.
In the original post, she points to things like the availability of large-size clothes and restaurant and airline seats getting bigger as "evidence" that we encourage obesity. I mean, WTF? So what if there are wider seats on airplanes? In fact, airplane seats used to be wider until a deregulated airline industry started trying to make a buck off putting an extra few seats in coach.
Breathe, Brenda. Breathe.
And one of our commenters said something similar about big girl clothing shops ("I wish there were no BIG GIRL clothes shops, larger or extended seat belts...") and I have to wonder what people want us to wear. Sacks? Tarps? They sure as hell wouldn't want to see us running around naked, I'm sure. Although that might serve everybody right. We should totally do a naked fat protest.
The more I think about it, the more I start to get mad too, Brenda.
One of the things that struck me about both of the entries Savy wrote is that she keeps mentioning her fear that her children would fall between the booth and the table at a restaurant and be hurt because of the enormous gap left for all the overweight people. It comes up once in each article and is reiterated in twice in her comments: "But *I* also deserved to not have to sit so far forward in my chair that I was very uncomfortable, or to worry about my son hitting his head when he slipped between the massive gap. Huh?
It strikes me one of those scenes in The Simpsons where the woman screams "would someone PLEASE think of the children!" So... you couldn't sit at a table instead of a booth and arrange for a child seat? Sounds like she's bolstering a weak argument with feigned concern for the children.
As far as the "society as enabler" thing goes, that becomes a convoluted chicken-or-the-egg discussion. To really study it, you'd also have to look at the shift from farming/manufacturing to office jobs since WWII; the "speeding up" of family life that almost demands the consumption of convenience foods; the influence of the media/pop-culture in shaping our self-perception, and on and on. It isn't as simple as bigger seatbelts in an airplane or clothes that fit someone larger than a current size 12. Her suggestion that overweight people today pay the price of the last 60 years of American culture (in terms of higher insurance premiums, no clothes to wear, and no place to sit in a restaurant) is just ludicrous.
This is not to say that we are not each responsible for our own health, eating, exercise, etc. I'm just responding to her idea that suddenly society is going down this horrible path of "enabling." It's been a long path with a lot of twisty turns, and taking such a short-sighted view of it isn't useful... it's just kind of condescending.
I expressed a personal opinion, from MY OWN EXPERIENCE.. I did not mean in imply that there should be no clothes, seats, etc for larger people, I just wished they hadn't been available to ME. Unless you have been in that situation and back again, maybe you should not knock people for having an OPINION on this, and if you ARE IN THAT SITUATION....well I hope you are happy.... I WAS NOT.
I'm sorry I misconstrued your statement, but you did say you wished there were no clothes shops, etc. so I just took that statement at face value. And I'm not trying to knock you for having an opinion, I was just disagreeing with you.
I've started three different comments but in the end what I'm reading is that fat peope are to blame. Of what? who knows, but just blame them.
Actually, I have been in that situation--though I'm now well over 200 pounds lighter, I have had to ask for seat belt extenders on airplanes and my wedding dress was a size 32. And, you know what? I'm damn glad I had those things available to me, so that I could travel to study in other countries and so that I could get married in something other than a hefty garbage bag.
I refuse to limit my own--or anyone's--opportunities in life, no matter what my--or their--size.
Chris H, are you actually saying that inanimate objects were responsible for choices you made about what to eat and what not to eat, whether and how much to exercise??? And that because of that, other people, whether known to you or complete strangers, should have either things that make ordinary life possible (clothes that fit, more or less), or bearable (chairs that fit) taken away from them????
I'm beyond stunned.
I don't know. This is a very tough issue for me. Well, not for me per se, but for me to watch someone else go through. My husband is approx 350 lbs and he has trouble fitting in booths and finding clothes to fit and sitting in smaller cars or concert seats, and flying is a nightmare for both of us. And sometimes I get aggravated at him for being aggravated that the world doesn't always accommodate his weight. And I know that's not fair and I sometimes hate myself for feeling that way, but...I love him very much and I think my aggravation is all rooted in fear because he has all sorts of health problems related to his weight and I can't help but think, "I love you so much, but you are choosing to slowly kill yourself this way."
I seem to have gotten way off-topic here but the only place I can see that society might enable the obese to stay obese is in regards to portion sizes when eating. Now, I'm not saying that restaurants are to blame, not at all. What I am saying is that I think it makes it harder for people to push their plate away when there is all this food left to eat. But I'm certainly not seeing booths or airline seats or movie theater seats getting bigger, so where's all this enabling coming from?
Lisa
I am making an assumption, but I don't think Chris meant "inanimate objects were responsible for choices you made."
I got myself up to 357 pounds and I know that by wearing the "right" clothes and having seatbelt extenders, etc. I was able to ignore many signals I should have taken action on sooner.
I don't hold the availability of large clothes, etc. responsible, but they did go a long way toward my ability to ignore what was going on.
I wouldn't call it enabling. I think it is benign. People must be able to live a quality of life and necessity is the mother of invention. There are plenty of overweight people who don't think they need a change and they should be able to do simple things like get dressed or eat out.
In the end it is our own self-awareness that makes the difference and laying the responsibility on plus size clothing or larger booths is a cop out as surely as me looking at the mirror and saying "I look good for 200 pounds" and not doing anything about it.
For the record, my final straw was when even some of the largest plus size clothes I ever bought did not fit. Did that "enable" me to finally take the responsibility I so needed? No, but along with other factors, it sure slapped me in the face hard enough to take notice.
Heather, you make an excellent point about preventive vs. reactive healthcare and the stupidity of our insurance system. I'll offer up a non-weight-related example. A few years ago, I needed to get orthopaedic shoe inserts. My insurance would not cover the inserts that would prevent/correct the foot problems I was having, but it *would* cover the surgery I might need in the future if I went without the inserts.
Let's take a look at the math -- they're willing to pay several thousand dollars for the surgery (in the hopes that perhaps I'll be using a different insurance carrier by that time, I suppose), but were unwilling to pay the $150 or so it cost to get the inserts.
Now, let's bring it back to the weight issue. The insurance companies won't cover an exercise class, but they'll cover your blood pressure medications, heart surgery, and insulin twenty years down the line. I'm not saying they shouldn't cover the prescriptions/surgery/whatever – of course they should. But our health care system as it sits is ineffective in preventing illness, and then people scream that the obese should pay higher premiums for their "drain on the system." It's maddening.
A side note to chris h: I don't think that mo pie was "knocking" you. Your original post did not read "I wish I didn't have access to BIG GIRL clothes shops," it read "I wish there were no BIG GIRL clothes shops." There's a considerable difference between the actual statement you posted and what you apparently intended, and I read it the same way mo pie did.
I WISH I HAD NEVER COMMENTED ACTUALLY, AS WHAT ONE WRITES IS NEVER TAKEN AS MEANT OBVIOUSLY.... I'M OVER IT. HAVE A NICE DAY.
Boy, oh boy. I'm going to deliberately not read comments before I answer.
Here's what I think I believe:
1) That bigger women are hammered more mercilessly than bigger men in our society, and that our society is in universal denial about the fact that human bodies change throughout life. Therefore,the least fashion can do to accommodate that is give skirts and pants from size 0 to size 30+ elasticized waists.
(Seriously. I've built an entirely professional wardrobe that way. I don't believe what Mo believes about fat pants, I have four sizes in my closet that I've been cycling through most of my life since I reached my adult height, but I waste far less mental energy and fear on being judged on my wardrobe and can concentrate on things like interest rates and global warming.)
2) I believe that as long as the FDA and the food industry refuse to admit that the majority of the U.S. food supply contains toxic ingredients (so we really don't know what we're eating, even if we think we're eating organic), and as long as airlines continue to shrink the size of their seats based on the economy of squeezing more people in the plane, I believe that airlines, theatres, and the like should accommodate both larger and smaller people.
3) I believe that people that consider ridicule and abuse to be encouraging weight loss strategies need - at minimum - massive doses of communication skills therapy.
4) I believe that if people look at societal accommodations for their condition - whatever it is - and think "oh, goody, I can just stay in that state" if that state is otherwise detrimental to their physical and/or mental well-being (and that includes being able to "fit" in the rest of society, to a certain extent, since our society is sick but exclusion & isolation are a generally major stressors), that person needs to wake up and ask him/herself if s/he REALLY believes that.
Because, truth? Our society enables a LOT of BS (Justice Department, anyone?) but that doesn't mean each of us doesn't still have to decide how to live our own lives.
If there are features of our culture that "enable" obesity, I think they are the shrinking beauty ideal and the pressure to conform. If you already don't fit in, it's easiest to stay sane if you try to ignore the bombardment of messages about your sub-standard looks. But if that also leads to being out of touch with your body, even more weight gain and denial might well follow.
I'm thinking about how in high-school, I was a bit overweight and awkward, but also creative and smart. The beauty ideal on offer seemed so stupid as well as unattainable, I felt it totally didn't apply to me. I was shamed for being a bit fat; it didn't feel that different when I got fatter! Now when I look at pictures from high school, I think I looked lovely. If only I'd been able to notice that then, I might have taken care of myself better.
I'm also thinking about gyms and gym clothes. If fat people could go to a gym and not worry about being snickered at, if they had nice things to wear to do it, that would enable healthy activities! Whereas the shame of embarrassment, and the rejection implicit by not finding clothes for a particular activity, just leads to unhappiness and unhealthiness. Think of Joy Nash's fat rant- to paraphrase, she says that fat people put off living because of the shame of being fat. I think accommodations that reduce shame are a positive step towards living healthier lives.
It might be a good idea to throw away your fat pants when you've lost the weight, but you wouldn't do it before you lost the weight! If you had to wear a trash bag or a muumuu, you wouldn't feel like you deserved to take care of yourself, and you're not more likely to go jogging, or dancing, or cycling.
I think focusing on health and happiness is the best strategy, both personally and culturally. Fat People and Fat Pants shouldn't be scapegoats for the larger problems our society has.
anonymous, I had the same experience in high school. I felt like (and was told I was) this hugely fat thing, but now I look at photos of myself and see someone totally different from my perception at the time.
And it wasn't just the high school kids. My doctor and assorted family members joined in the chorus of messages I received. As a chubby-but-healthy 16 year old, I lost a lot of weight but was told that I should keep losing more, that I wasn't "there" yet. (To give this some context, the doctor was telling me this when I weighed 148 pounds.) Figuring that it was just impossible, I gave up, and gained back all the weight I lost and more. The chorus didn't change one bit.
I've often thought that if I'd had some kind of support then, that I might not have spent the next 20 years struggling with my weight and my self-perception. That's not to say that I don't take responsibility for my own body; just that it's hard to make changes when you're made to feel "wrong" every day.
So, to bring it back to the topic: From my personal experience, "shaming" the overweight does not work; in fact, it makes things worse.
I don't think accomodating overweight people in the contexts discussed here is enabling. I have lost 50 lbs since mid-September. What finally got me going was a health issue, not a comfort issue.
I shopped at Saks when I wore a size 20. I felt like I had to dress better than my thinner colleagues to project the same level of professionalism. Not having access to nice clothes probably would have effected me on a socio-economic level and decreased the likiehood that I would ever lose weight.
I have only ever been on one plane in which I could not buckle my seat belt. It was a small commuter jet on a 50-minute flight. I was too embarassed to ask for an extender. If that had happened more frequently, I would probably have just stopped flying.
Different things motivate different people. I think lack of "accomodations" would have inhibited, rather than encouraged, weight loss on my part. Eroding someone's self esteem, for instance by implying that they are not worthy of a seat belt or decent clothing, seems less likely to make that person feel the sense of empowerment and confidence that is necessary to make the changes that will lead to weight loss.
This is along the lines of people yelling at a fat person walking outside.
Very obese people become more obese because they are ashamed to go outside.
I have decent clothes, I travel and I WALK 30 minutes a day.
Losing weight is very difficult, working on your health and good self esteem because you can get around is a lot easier
It's not the larger seating and plus-size clothing stores that are enabling the obesity epidemic. They're just a reaction to its inevitability. If they need bigger sizes because their customers can't fit into regular ones, then they have to offer those sizes or go out of business.
So what's really causing the obesity epidemic? Plenty!
It's the huge portions of everything you buy in the supermarket or in a restaurant. "Bigger Is Better" is the ultimate selling point, so today's bagel is 3 times bigger than the bagels I ate as a kid.
It's the fact that it's cheaper to get a burger with large fries & a large drink than it is to just get a burger & a small drink---or a decent, nutritious meal.
It's that fast food is quicker, easier-to-get and cheaper than nutritious meals. And that the minimum wage is so low that the people earning it can't afford healthy food. Not that any of us have the time to cook decent meals, because our working hours are so much longer than they used to be.
It's that shopping used to involve walking to individual shops every day or two, and buying just what you need for a couple of days. But now those shops have been put out of business by huge power centres that you have to drive to once a week for a massive purchase, which you then need a car to carry home.
It's that we have to drive or commute to and from work, and spend most of our time there, sitting at computers. If our jobs were closer to home, we could walk there and back, but they're not, so we can't. And most of us now have to bring work home, which means more time at the computer instead of playing sports or walking or doing other physical activities.
It's that we're afraid to let our kids play outside unless we're there to supervise them, and most of us don't get home from work until at least 6:00. So our kids get home from school and spend the next couple of hours in the house, snacking, watching TV, playing video games, or surfing the Web.
It's that we spend way more time watching sports (and snacking, since snacking is one of the joys of spectator sports) than playing them. And that, with all the extra hours of work we put in, we're too tired to actually play the sports ourselves.
And, yeah, there's genetics and metabolism too. And those genetics are also fuelling the diabetes epidemic, of which I recently became a statistic.
So there are a lot of things that enable it, but lack of willpower and larger seating and clothing aren't among them. If it were that simple, the problem would have been solved years ago, and the diet industry wouldn't be raking in billions of dollars every year.
The worst of it is, as the average person becomes larger, all our role models become taller and thinner---usually surgically---which makes us feel even worse, and that includes little children. Wouldn't it be nice if Miss America and Miss Universe actually looked like the real people who live here? And if pageants regarded cosmetic surgery enhancements the same way that sports regard steroids?
I have really enjoyed reading all the comments and opinions and now it is my turn to give mine :) I am a large woman and am in no way going to "blame" society for me being fat....its my "fault" and I am big because its been MY choice to not loose weight and I am happy with myself. Why do people always feel the need to blame something or someone else for their "choices" in life. I am a big girl and proud of it! I love shopping in the big girl clothing shops! I am not going to say its cause my parents over fed me as s kid, or cause I can get seat belt extenders, or cause there are comfortable booths in some restaurants...I'm big simply becasue I'm big. I'm sorry Chris, if I offend you and I believe everyone is entitle to their opinion but I TRULY DO NOT belive in putting the "blame" on something for enabling you to become obese or for any choice someone makes in their life. Nothing allowed you to keep growing except YOU! I have only kept growing because of ME...NOT socitey or for any other reason. Socitey has not enabled any of us big people to become big except for the choices WE'VE made! Thats my opinion! To sum it up again....Why do people blame other people or things for the way they are! Take the "blame" for your own choices!!
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