Fatty Talk Keep Talkin' Fatty Talk
Anabell sends along this thought-provoking question from Diet Blog: do you participate in Fat Talk?
"Some intriguing research shows that college students - males and females - know that when women are in a group of other women who are fat talking, that they are supposed to join in to say negative things about their bodies. And, there is pressure to do so."
On second glance, I don't think the statistics are so convincing, since only 40% of male and 51% of female students identified this pressure, hardly an overwhelming majority. However, from anecdotal evidence, this rings really true. Women bond by complaining about their bodies and sometimes it seems that anyone who doesn't complain "can't relate." I've had fatty talk conversations. Have you?
"Some intriguing research shows that college students - males and females - know that when women are in a group of other women who are fat talking, that they are supposed to join in to say negative things about their bodies. And, there is pressure to do so."
On second glance, I don't think the statistics are so convincing, since only 40% of male and 51% of female students identified this pressure, hardly an overwhelming majority. However, from anecdotal evidence, this rings really true. Women bond by complaining about their bodies and sometimes it seems that anyone who doesn't complain "can't relate." I've had fatty talk conversations. Have you?
Labels: question
posted by mo pie at 11:07 AM
21 Comments:
Okay, I'm pretty sure I haven't known more than a handful of women in my entire life who haven't engaged in "fat talk" at some point in my presence. Seriously. It's a given that whenever a group of women is chatting, the subject comes up and everyone moans about it, including the size 6s.
I've tried like heck to avoid engaging in it for the past couple of years but still occasionally get sucked in.
Reposting my comment from Diet blog:
I had never joined into fat talk. Becuse I've always been fat. And I see no need to repeat the obvious. The majority of my friends are quite thin (size zero thin) and it's a constant topic: "look how fat I am" or "look how fat she looks". And during those conversations I always feel judged but can't complain out loud because the critiques are not being directed at me. That's why I do not participae in fat talk. I'd hate to make someone feel the way I do during those talks.
Oh, yeah, I've had that conversation countless times. In college, my very thin (size 3) best friend kept going on about how fat she felt and blah de blah, until I finally stopped her to ask, "Do you have any idea how I feel when you complain about being fat, given that I outweigh you by at least 50 pounds?" We didn't have that conversation for quite a while after that.
I'm like Anabell, and add to that I am sick to bloody death of talking about my weight! I am more than a number on a scale! While it is lovely for people to comment on one's weight loss, it gets very tiresome when that's all people ever say to you! FAT TALK, WHO NEEDS IT?
I'm with the first poster - I don't know any women who DON'T have those conversations. It's a bonding thing, complaining together about how much they hate their thighs are or how they can't wear a certain style until they lose 10 pounds.
There was a related phenomenon at my last job where there'd be cake or whatever for office birthdays and everyone would practically fight over who got the smallest piece while talking about how "bad" they'd been on their diets.
I ditto Anabell. Sometimes, I will throw in, "do you want me to tell you you're not fat? Or do you want me to tell you I am fat too?" I know that's a little confrontational, but to me the whole dynamic begs the question--what are really trying to say?
I try to stay away from it because it annoys the crap outta me. I am in college right now and the girls here do it all the time! And they are all skinny! It pisses me off so much to hear a size 2 girl talk about how fat she is. I just want to say " you're right! you are soooo fat!"
I agree that this is rife, to the point where it is as common a conversation starter as commenting on the weather. One of my favourite things about my current group of friends is that this just doesn't happen. I am one of three of the larger women in the group, and two of the "skinnies" have lost significant weight (the short one 40lb, the tall one 75lb), to become slim.
So conversations about bodies are much more "hey, we all have fabulous boobies! especially you in that top today". We don't sit about ragging on ourselves, we celebrate each other, with occasional whining about the never ending chore of leg-shaving. If one of us makes a comment along the lines of wanting to loose wieght, the response is "cool, lemme know if I can help", not fake sympathy pretending that no weight loss is warranted, or snarkyness.
This group of women has been so good for my mental health. I wish everybody had similar friends.
rosemary grace, i'm jealous! a friend of mine who is like a size 0 or a size 2 today said she felt like "Large Marge." I'm not sure who the f*ck large marge is supposed to be, but it could f*cking well be me. I really wanted to say that. (My other friend and I said nothing.) From time to time she says these insensitive tidbits. I know all women have poor self-images, but why do so many of the skinny ones seem so insensitive too? As a result of her insensitivity I have never mentioned to her that I'm trying to lose weight and that I'm doing Weight Watchers. I'd be too embarrassed.
i have the problem where my friend constantly comments on how much weight i've lost. the problem is, i haven't actually lost weight. i fluctuate + or - 5lbs around the same weight. (but i am very active and i do get shocking amounts of exercise)
so i always wonder, when i'm on the +5lbs side, are you commenting to yourself how much weight i've gained? Otherwise, how do you notice when i'm on the -5lbs side? and + or - 5lbs is like the extreme, usually I'm with in 2-3 lbs of the same weight.
usually i just say thank you, that is nice to hear. i'm pretty sure she is just trying to be supportive and complimentary.
sometimes i do point out that i haven't actually lost any weight. which starts the 'muscle weighs more' speech. except, i have a tape measure and i am not any smaller. i have a body fat % scale and i am the same body fat %. sometimes i feel compelled to whip out the excel spreadsheet with a graph of my weight and prove it: i'm unchanged. still chubby. leave me alone for godsakes.
as i said, i try to go with the thank you, that is nice to hear and not tear myself down (no, no changes here, still fat, etc. etc) but the urge to set the record straight is overwhelming, especially after a few of these talks.'
so. my point? I try to avoid the fat talk but the urges are overwhelming.
Fat Talk from the skinny enrages me to the point that I'm barely able to choke out much more than a "Shut. The fuck. Up" anymore. But I have a new plan on how to deal with it.
Size 2 Bridesmaid: "I have sooo got to lose 20 pounds before this wedding! My thighs are huuuge! I look so faaaaaat."
Me: "No, no, no; you don't look fat at all. Doughy, maybe. A little doughy. But not fat. You certainly don't need to lose 20 pounds. Ten for sure, 15 if you think you can manage it, but never 20. Cheer up."
You just reminded me of something I'd forgotten ... I was really skinny as a kid, and then at around 13 or 14 I developed a little pudge around my middle. And I was really excited because it meant I could go on a diet like all of my friends. Because that is what we did, we dieted and we talked about dieting and about how fat we were.
I think this is a pretty common conversation between me, my friends, every woman I've ever known. It works best if there are people of comparable sizes talking. I always get annoyed when me and my more curvaceous friends are talking that way and then one skinny girl pipes in with, "Oh, yeah, I know how you feel. I feel so fat." Yeah, pipe down, skinny minnie.
Seriously, though, since I started back with the healthy eating and exercise, I've found that my conversations with my female friends are so much more positive. It's not really about how fat we are, but what we're doing to make our bodies healthy and strong. So I'll say, yeah, I have a big butt and big thighs, but they're trimming down, and hey, the big legs help me swim really well.
If only there were some way to make the conversation more positive in the world at large, instead of feeling the need to tear ourselves down in the name of camaraderie.
I hate the fat talk! It has always made me very uncomfortable. It's always self-centered and usually compliment-grubbing. Sometimes I think I have "Fat-dar"- the fat form of Gay-dar- I can guess if someone I meet has been overweight or has known and loved someone who struggled with weight by whether they fat talk, and how they do it!
Most of my friends are too cool and too polite to do it, but I still witness variations on Fat Talk that get to me- I have a friend like anon.'s who says "You look great! You've lost weight!" when most people would say "hello."
And then there is the "food talk" and the "exercise talk"- when someone says "O my god! i just ate a whole cookie!" or "I haven't been to the gym all week!" I've known people who say this stuff so much around me I suspect they are trying to "educate" me.
But I do love frank and honest conversations with other fat folks about what it's like to be fat, and what we are doing to get healthier, and what we think of bigoted skinny people. Now that's some good fat talk!
I get fat talk from my husband!
Every time he takes his shirt off, he goes on about how he's getting fat, and that he's "getting a big belly". If so, it is an invisible one. (He is over six feet tall and wears 28-inch waist jeans.)
It drives me absolutely wild - and I'm perfectly comfortable with my appearance. However, if I point out to him that he is not in fact overweight, and I am, he just says "You're a girl." Grrrr.
I would never initiate fat talk, but I've probably joined in to try to defuse it. I'd rather wrap up a topic and move on than drop out of the conversation...
I hear it endlessly in my office, from women who look like models - some of them are former models.
It is a bonding thing. IMO that makes it worse, not better. Just think of the things we could do as women if we didn't spend all this time and energy obsessed over body size.
So sadly true! The majority of the fat talk I have experienced in my life is from women and girls who are far from fat- you know, "I have ghetto booty", or "oh my GAWD, I have the beginnings of a hint of a double chin!"
I hate that. I don't think of myself as being composed of a bunch of fat parts, but when I listen to these women talking I shrink inside, because it's an unspoken fact that I'm fat. By myself, I'm a confident woman, and I have a healthy sex life, but nothing makes me feel bigger than a bunch of skinny women comparing their nonexistent rolls.
Here's a link to an article about the "socially mandatory fat talk "study.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17600911/from/ET/
The researcher points out:
"If there are women out there who feel neutrally or even positively about their bodies, I bet we never hear this from them for fear of social sanction and rejection," she said.
Well and good, but then she concludes with this patronizing statement:
"I wish women would worry less about their bodies — while still taking good care of their health through behaviors like stress management, regular exercise and healthful eating — and spend more time learning, helping, educating, leading, solving problems, rising to positions of influence and contributing to society in general," Martz said.
Oh please. I wish society would worry less about our bodies. For such a learned researcher, she sure drew a conclusion that really has a lot more variables involved.
As irritating - or hurtful - as it may be to hear "skinny" women participating in fat talk, remember that they're insecure with their bodies, too. Chances are they don't see themselves as you do. Women are notorious for imagining themselves as much larger than they actually are (as illustrated in experiments with women drawing their own outlines, then laying down in them to compare), so they could very well see themselves as larger than you. Skinny women fat talking may have more to do with poor body image than insensitivity...
I am one of the authors of this study and the reporter midrepresented the data. Actually 97% of the women (not 51%) thought another woman would join in the fat talk when other women were doing so.
I am pleased to see it is stirring up conscious thought on this social phenomenon.
Denise Marta
I am a thin person and I have two sisters, one who is thin and one who is extremely overweight. My overweight sister gets completely angry and offended when my other sister and I talk about weight, exercise and food. I don't think this is fair. My thin sister and I struggle to STAY thin, it is not easy, it takes work and will power as we are both in our late 40's.
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